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Dear board members, it has come to my attention that many community members feel that openstreetmap-carto is stagnating. Some feel that there is no vision, no project goals, and that maintainers don’t care about the community instead trying to follow their own agendas. I am concerned that it may negatively impact long term health of the project.

As the first/default style that is visible on https://openstreetmap.org openstreetmap-carto can be considered one of core OpenStreetMap projects. While it may not be as important as the backend API and database it is the first thing that anyone going to OSM’s site sees. It is therefore of great interest to the entire project that the style is maintained and community is involved and proud of the results.

OpenStreetMap grew as a project and right now it is one of the largest open datasets of geospatial data. Many researchers as well as companies from startups to FAANG rely on OSM. There are more mappers than ever. For a very long time it was all serviced by volunteers but with that growth there is a need for more time and professionalism from maintainers.

As the project grows so does the responsibility. We know that OSM Foundation is trying to help by e.g. hiring new SRE, hiring iD developer, organizing committees and working groups, creating grant programmes. I believe that openstreetmap-carto should at least get involved in Software dispute resolution panel and if possible start leveraging paid resources to help with maintenance and design.

What was reported to us first was that one of our members tried to make a Pull Request adding rendering of some feature to the style and maintainers were hesitant to accept it even after extensive discussions and clear interest from the community. That in itself would not have been a cause for concern - not everything can/should be displayed on the map - but the last comments in the discussion turned to general issues with project maintainership and it was clear that many community members are dissatisfied with how openstreetmap-carto maintainers conduct the discussions and make decisions about the project.

Most concerning however was the comment from swedneck that one of openstreetmap-carto maintainers revealed information about him that he was not comfortable sharing (doxxing) and that nothing was done. Andy - openstreetmap-carto creator - was informed in another comment and ignored it. The issue was raised on OpenStreetMap discord where Amanda - board member - saw it but claimed that carto’s Code of Conduct does not list that doxxing is explicitly forbidden. This is very disappointing as it damages community’s trust in the project. Since then another maintainer Mateusz corrected that some actions were taken but this generated a comment only after I made diary entry that elicited 46 comments making some noise within the community.

Problems with openstreetmap-carto were raised in discord and again many community members expressed that the project is not very receptive to feedback. In one of threads for Question Of The Week event moderator asked what would the community like to change about openstreetmap-carto and the first response it was proposed that maintainers should be replaced. This response received seventeen “+1” reactions.

It’s clear that there are many people disappointed with the current state of affairs which for such an important project is concerning. I don’t think geospatial data can be disassociated from a map. OSMF choosing to focus only on database/API and editors is not enough in my opinion.

I hope this message will open discussion and meaningful actions can be taken to restore community’s faith that their input is valued in the project.

I have attached discussions that I mentioned (discord plus last part of github PR) so they are all in one place.

link link link link link link link link

Discussion

Comment from Cristoffs on 31 May 2022 at 11:19

Preempting possible questions. The Polish community today does not have the technical or financial means to undertake the solution of the problems I mentioned. However, if we receive such support we are ready to undertake changes and introduce an active and democratic style management policy.

Comment from Zverik on 31 May 2022 at 13:23

Thanks for writing this up, Cristoffs. I’m pretty sure this will remain another in a long list of diary posts pointing out tribalism and “meritocracy” in the OSM leadership. And as with previous posts, it would lead nowhere, gaining just a few mocking comments here and supporting comments on local channels, where people learnt to not rely on the “core OSM people” from UK and Germany. The latter keep supporting and funding each other, while outsiders have to push every little change through 100-comment threads and dream of forking decade-old projects.

(Yes, I myself was on the OSMF Board once and failed to do anything with this. This is a very complex issue requiring a collaboration effort that does not exists between people not gathering regularly in pubs.)

Comment from Hedaja on 31 May 2022 at 15:27

I know the pain of running against brick walls when it comes to carto maintainers For example with life cycle prefixes https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Cristoffs/diary/399287

Things clearly in use and widely adopted still get declined.

Comment from mmd on 31 May 2022 at 20:24

Maybe talk to the EWG folks, as they have this topic on their agenda anyway: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/EWG_2022-05-23#Response_to_OSM-Carto_Frustration

In addition, maybe get in touch with OWG, as they’re looking into vector tiles right now, see https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/565 … A key resource from planetiler already joined that discussion. I believe this was one of the projects mentioned on one of your screenshots.

OSMF choosing to focus only on database/API

I’m a bit lost on this one. EWG recently granted some funds to assess and estimate efforts related to potential future data model changes. Beyond that, I’m not aware of much of an OSMF involvement here (or I may have possibly missed it somehow…). Is this what you had in mind?

Comment from tomczk on 31 May 2022 at 20:51

Maybe talk to the EWG folks, as they have this topic on their agenda anyway: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/EWG_2022-05-23#Response_to_OSM-Carto_Frustration

I guess it’s understandable that Engineering group looks at it mainly from technical point of view but I feel like they missed the point of the frustration. It is not about rendering parcel lockers. It is about governance model of carto and lack of clear project goals. It’s a people/process problem not a technical problem. I guess making the technology so people don’t need to communicate and everyone can have their own map is some solution but I don’t think it’s the best one.

In addition, maybe get in touch with OWG, as they’re looking into vector tiles right now, see https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/565 … A key resource from planetiler already joined that discussion. I believe this was one of the projects mentioned on one of your screenshots.

To be honest I am not sure what anyone can do to expedite it. From the checkboxes in issue description it seems that they need to configure CDN - only OWG can do that. There is no communication on progress, status, blockers or anything else. Last post from 23rd of March. I guess we’ll just need to wait until someone finds the time and finishes the setup 🤷

Comment from Cristoffs on 31 May 2022 at 22:13

Top 50 contributors. Where is the development?

openstreetmap-carto.png

Comment from ZeLonewolf on 31 May 2022 at 22:43

There is no communication on progress, status, blockers or anything else.

With regard to the OWG/vector tile effort, there is actually quite a bit of active work going on, it’s just not really apparent from the GitHub tracker. The introduction of planetiler has given us an order of magnitude faster generation of vector tiles over tilemaker and two orders of magnitude faster generation over openmaptiles-tools. However, planetiler is not yet set up to generate vector tiles with arbitrary data schemas; currently it’s only usable as a Java API or it can generate the OpenMapTiles schema out of the box. The OWG would like to experiment with a very simple schema with just a few features as an initial testing step.

Given the speed advantage of planetiler, it makes sense to modify planetiler to be able to input a configuration file that describes the data schema (mapping between OSM elements and mvt tile attributes) as the next step.

This work has been happening here: https://github.com/onthegomap/planetiler/pull/160 https://github.com/onthegomap/planetiler/pull/201 https://github.com/onthegomap/planetiler/pull/190

This is fairly involved work and very performance sensitive. We’ve gone through several rounds of reviews and we expect very soon to have the ability to configure planetiler via configuration file for use cases that aren’t too complicated, with the idea that we can iterate further on functionality.

I added a status update to operations ticket on vector tiles so everyone knows that work is happening :)

Comment from amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️‍🌈 on 1 June 2022 at 06:18

As near as I can see, your only actionable suggestion is for osm-carto to join SRDP. I suggest you start by opening an issue on the carto repo about this, and talking to the SRDP to ask if they’re willing.

There is a proposal to add doxxing to the osm-carto CoC. There is a process to report CoC issues.

Other things you can do to help: Join OSMF, and talk to your friends to join. And then run for the board, or encourage others to.

(I’m an OSMF Board member. These are my personal views)

Comment from Andy Allan on 1 June 2022 at 10:15

I came across this and feel like I should respond to one aspect of this conversation.

A formal complaint under the openstreetmap-carto CoC has been received by the maintainers, related to some issues discussed here, and we are currently dealing with it. As I’m sure everyone will understand, CoC complaints are dealt with confidentially and not in public, so obviously this isn’t widely known. I normally would not comment publicly on any CoC complaint at all, but I think it’s worthwhile in this situation to say that one is in hand, albeit I’m not going to discuss any further details here.

I encourage anyone who wants to raise a CoC complaint to do so using the formal process that’s documented in the CoC. Unfortunately tagging people in issue comments (like myself, since I don’t follow the issue tracker currently), writing diary entries, or writing letters to other groups of people outside of the project (e.g. the OSMF Board) runs the risk of not being noticed or dealt with. But we do have a clearly and fully documented process for complaints, and I can assure you that any complaints received that way will be dealt with properly.

This letter raises a lot of other important points of discussion, but I thought I should respond to this aspect specifically.

Comment from Mateusz Konieczny on 1 June 2022 at 11:43

Some feel that (…) maintainers don’t care about the community instead trying to follow their own agendas

I am one of OSM Carto maintainers, almost inactive. Out of some reasons why I am inactive:

  • I implemented most of what I wanted and could improve
  • lack of time (though I guess I could drop some time-wasters of lower utility)
  • people were unhappy, no matter which decision I have taken (see also the first point)
  • people were unhappy also if no decision was taken
  • people kept trying to use OSM Carto to force their pet tagging schemes on others, bypassing discussions (to be clear, this one is not about packstations)

“don’t care about the community instead trying to follow their own agendas” is not one of reasons for such inactivity

And to repeat another comment from https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Cristoffs/diary/399189 :

I am definitely NOT running out of things to do. Even if I would live for 10 000 years I can be busy entire time without contributing to OSM Carto ever again.

And insults are not effective way of encouraging people to do something they want, at least in my case.

If I can do several projects then “people who me to work on it will/have/are insulting me” is going to be effective way to decide that it is not attractive.

And as result at this point I am not planning to become active in OSM Carto project.

Therefore I decided to remove myself as a maintainer, effective immediately

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/4561 has a PR with a documentation update.

(And if you disagreed about this claim or meant something else - then why you repeated it?)

Most concerning however was the comment from swedneck that one of openstreetmap-carto maintainers revealed information about him that he was not comfortable sharing (doxxing) and that nothing was done. Andy - openstreetmap-carto creator - was informed in another comment and ignored it. The issue was raised on OpenStreetMap discord where Amanda - board member - saw it but claimed that carto’s Code of Conduct does not list that doxxing is explicitly forbidden. This is very disappointing as it damages community’s trust in the project.

1) https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md#reporting-issues contain a clear explanation how issues should be reported, and pinging someone is not a solution

Pinging someone on github is NOT a reliable way to notify someone, as people with more involvement may receive many notifications

See for example https://github.com/isaacs/github/issues/167 and https://nolanlawson.com/2017/03/05/what-it-feels-like-to-be-an-open-source-maintainer/

Many people have notifications completely disabled and ignored.

BTW, this was mentioned already in https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Cristoffs/diary/399189#comment52526

2) To clarify what happened what that someone posted report of some problem with a screenshot and tried to keep location secret.

But (1) location was trivial to recover from what was posted (2) it located city, presumably where someone was living

I am mentioning this as doxing is rather used to describe release of info previously private which is a detailed personal info, typically things as exact address where someone lives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing “act of publicly revealing previously private personal information about an individual or organization, usually via the Internet”

To be clear, what happened was not OK and I intervened once I was aware of it.

Since then another maintainer Mateusz corrected that some actions were taken but this generated a comment only after I made diary entry that elicited 46 comments making some noise within the community.

This diary entry had no effect whatsoever on my intervention. I become aware of the problem in a different way.

Comment from Wynndale on 1 June 2022 at 12:31

I would agree that governance isn’t a matter that the EWG should be tackling but there may be issues more in the EWG’s remit that are relevant.

Comment from BubbleGuppies on 13 June 2022 at 08:09

Where there is smoke there is fire.

Most of the commenters have taken issue with the description of the smoke, how the smoke was reported, or blaming why it is blowing in their direction… but I feel we have missed the fact that there is clear evidence of a fire within our community. We can disagree and argue that Cristoffs should have used a different process to complain or we don’t like the accusatory nature…BUT THERE IS A FIRE!

From my professional viewpoint - we should be focusing on why a mature and active member of the community is so unhappy and recognize that this most likely represents the views of more than one person.

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